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bobbobbin
30th November 2007, 21:43
if you are employed as a share fisherman are you entitled by LAW to see one at the end of each trip to see how your share is calculated or is it just a case of take what you get?

The Harbour Cat
30th November 2007, 21:48
well i dont see a reason you should be refused

bobbobbin
30th November 2007, 21:51
spoke to a boy today who had tax problems ,asked his skipper for the last 3 years settlings said the skipper is on suicide watch !!!

wbeedie
30th November 2007, 23:01
worked out of the Broch and PD and never seen a square u sheet ,but one skipper I was aboard with showed all reciepts for a trip then worked out the square up in front of you and explained everything before he paid you AND he always rounded up up your pay instead of leaving you with a pocket of shrapnell but for tax purposes I would think the office would have a copy of all your mates wages for their taax purposes maybe he shold ask them instead rather than being responsible for his skippers impending suicide LOL

wbeedie
30th November 2007, 23:02
ahhh,the good old days when there was nothing to hide and men were honest !!!!!

Nae big houses,shopping bills for the house and grand cars to pay for LOL

GY2007
30th November 2007, 23:53
I thought you had to take the 3 B's. Boat, Bungalow and Beamer, together,I didna ken you could buy them separate.

tetley
1st December 2007, 00:58
Accountant once told me, your were entitled to a settling sheet at the end off each trip that the boat was actually settled. also as a share fisherman, you were entitled to have your accountant view a full years boat accounts, as long as a suitable period of notice was given to vessels owners.

seahorse54
1st December 2007, 09:50
Square up sheets are a thing of the past. Even though you are a share fisherman its really just a wage now, after all the "EXTRAS" are deducted its decided what you get. There is the true story of the skipper asking for a packet of chewing gum in the mission, and charging it to the boat. Cant have that showing up on settling now eh. lol

Davie Tait
1st December 2007, 10:08
Thats the problem I guess , there was only ever 2 boats in the fleet that you could see the landing docket ( with all the prices ) and work out to the penny what your wages were and that was the Speyside A4 ( when owned by Peter Simpson ) and my family's boat the David John A169. We paid the crew a set percentage of the gross ( deckies+cook 2.75% , engineer 3% , mate 5% and skipper 7% - we had 9 of a crew and this was the usual Trawler type square up ). Don't know the percentages for Peter but he squared up the same way.

We put the landing docket on the table very time and you could get the calculator out and you could work out your top line ( your take home wage depended on any gear from the store , if you worked your tax taken off at the office , National Insurance stamps and holiday pay - which you got back if you left the boat for any reason as it was your money after all ).

Even with the percentages set out the way we had it a deckie could expect a similar wage to the crew of a seiner even though the seiners had 6 of a crew and we had 9.

Davie Tait
1st December 2007, 10:23
No we worked that system right up till the last trip we had her in October 1988 Bob. It would be the fairest system by far to be on ( only the big pelagic boys are on a similar system with so many £thousand per £1m gross ). It would wipe out the ability of skippers to rip the crew off , some skippers used to pay their crews the same for a £20,000 gross as a £40,000 gross which was completely wrong

backstabbing thief
1st December 2007, 15:16
These guys have no intension of showing you or anybody else, they are a law unto themselves , I worked as a share fisherman for over 15 years and have yet to see one, the last full year I had aboard a trawler we earned under £50 per week for 16 weeks before christmas, but yet it still never stopped the owner putting his christmas bonus on to the settling sheet, and guess what I nor anybody else couldnt do a hoot about it ................ it was a case of "if your not happy about G T F." Ruthless is a word that springs to mind its of no wonder the industry is in the state thats its in just now.

wod1
1st December 2007, 16:42
A tricky subject, at the end of the day there are good and bad guys. Bad ones have been shown by some of the stories in this thread, but at the same time most of the skippers priority is to get the crews a wage and it works both ways, if they have good crew they deserve a good pay. just a shame the fish boats have to take off quota/days at sea leasing costs before pay. Im sure the crews would have had a better year without them.

bobbobbin
1st December 2007, 17:18
there is nothing TRICKY about it . if you have to make deductions to lease quota etc surely it is in the crews interest to see what is coming off the top before they get paid?

backstabbing thief
1st December 2007, 20:08
Wod surely thats part of the boats business to have enough days at sea quota etc, after all when a boats value increases the crew do not get a percentage of that, it far to easy for a skipper owner to throw everything on the expense sheet .
Where do you stand on the policy of a boats mortgage comming off the grossing? as we both know this happens surely in this case the crew must own a percentage of the boat? but how many crew do actually own the said percentage?

wbeedie
1st December 2007, 23:25
Thats the problem I guess , there was only ever 2 boats in the fleet that you could see the landing docket ( with all the prices ) and work out to the penny what your wages were and that was the Speyside A4 ( when owned by Peter Simpson ) and my family's boat the David John A169. We paid the crew a set percentage of the gross ( deckies+cook 2.75% , engineer 3% , mate 5% and skipper 7% - we had 9 of a crew and this was the usual Trawler type square up ). Don't know the percentages for Peter but he squared up the same way.

We put the landing docket on the table very time and you could get the calculator out and you could work out your top line ( your take home wage depended on any gear from the store , if you worked your tax taken off at the office , National Insurance stamps and holiday pay - which you got back if you left the boat for any reason as it was your money after all ).

Even with the percentages set out the way we had it a deckie could expect a similar wage to the crew of a seiner even though the seiners had 6 of a crew and we had 9.

Davie ask anyone but the old man used to show a square up sheet and paid every last penny in the Broch when working with an office , when we fished together I used to see every expense from bait , fuel berthing dues he even used to supply the food out of his own pocket not out of the boat,and if there wasnt enough to give a wage with catching or poor weather the boat would get diddly squat so he could provide a wage to me or who ever worked with him at the time and the boats share would be made up for a few weeks later couldnt say fairer than that, bit on the other hand was aboard a pair boat out of the Broch when I first moved back aand asked to see a square up and got fired for asking so it swings both ways I suppose lol

Davie Tait
2nd December 2007, 10:23
Even though i've been on the receiving end of rip-off-skippers in the past when I was a fisherman I will not have anyone put up boats names or skippers names on the site. Even if its true it could cause serious problems for the site. Sorry guys but my first responsibility has to be to the sites owners and to make sure the site continues.

Davie

wod1
2nd December 2007, 12:31
there is nothing TRICKY about it . if you have to make deductions to lease quota etc surely it is in the crews interest to see what is coming off the top before they get paid?

Maybe should have put touchy, didnt mean tricky as in the concept of it. more the issues it brings up, its not just fishing that suffer in terms of wages, just general human nature that everyone feels generally hard done by their paycheque.

porthendry
18th December 2007, 17:28
In all probability the only skippers who would show you a square up sheet are those you wouldn't need to ask in the first place.

Lucky if there are a dozen boats in the NE of Scotland where the crew actually receive what they would regard as their fair share.

Nowadays the term "share fisherman" is a very loose one indeed.

restlesswave
18th December 2007, 22:09
completly agree with porthendry .i fished on a lot of boats and all the skippers that would show you a return sheet you didn`t need to ask anyway. one boat in particular i fished on that was very fair was a scottish built 65 out of burtonport and the only thing that came out of the gross was diesel, ice, and grub- full stop. no lube, gear, chandelry e.t.c. 10 and1/2shares after the 3 expenses above and the half share was re-divided between the four deckhands as a bonus. but funnily enough we always thought the owners big pelagic boat was picking up our bills!- not bad to have a mackerel mogul as a sponsor!!